Twin Boss damage buff ideas and other stuff
Hello there Id like to talk after the recent balancing patch about Twin boss damage.
This topic is mainly focused on boss damage ( considering mainly on Elga encounter but you can really feel the damage difference already from Lavalon and further up bosses )
First of all I want to introduce myself. Who I am and why am I writing this? Nobody and I got a lot of time on my hands.
Alright after the introduction.. Just to be safe: this is purely PVE related topic for every PvP salt coming this way.
The problem at hands with Twin class currently is the very low boss damage the class itself has ( the add clearing is decent its not the best but doable ) compared to any other class ingame besides dragoon but since goon is considered kinda like tanky its understandable ( what tank should overdmg DPS classes… yeah im looking at you Riot )
1. Question is why is the damage low.
From what I can see there are a few issues that amount to the general problem.
- First is the animation on other twin skills are long and deal mediocore damage.
- Second yes you can attack and X spam in between but fact is you move very rapidly forward with x spam which leaves you with just a few hits then forcing you to move every second and causing you to lose dps.
- Third the buff At Light Speed going
off giving too much Att speed to the point you cant live without it.
- Fourth lacking either consistant damage ( Invoker, Summoner ) or a burst window ( Destroyers : sniping Vulcan, Ninja – Woodrush, Crossblade )
Those problems cause that classes like ninja can spam 2-3 skills with a higher damage scaling then the Twins skill while they are not locked into an endless animation. And you aren’t making up enough dmg with x spam inbetween to close the gap of damage.
Here some wanabe tests and numbers after testing every skill a few times and getting the approximate time of from when it started and when I could move after it ended.
Dragon Kick : 2,9 sec
Infinite Turning Kick : 4,5 sec
Slide Kicking : 3,2 sec
Infinite Kicking 3,2 sec
Rising Drop Kick: 2,9 sec
Stamper : 2,8 sec
I like to compare Twin in terms of damage to Wizard since they are kinda the same they have a standalone skill doing damage while they can do separately x spam with just 1 attack.
So where is the difference between those ?
Wizard skills got a higher % damage scaling then twin skills. ( If we ignore meteor Strike which gave the class a immense dmg boost the second best would be Backdraft at 300% at just lvl 4 skill, Snow blues at skill lvl 5/5 250%. Whilst twin class having only 1 skill passing the 200% mark which would be rising drop kick ) Ofc to not forget they can put one skill on top of another because they arent locked to the animation while the skill is outside doing its thing. And for the X spam wizards can move forward backward while attacking at once so not losing any damage instead of getting more DPS when moving forward due to an animation bug.
2. Solutions I can offer for the skill problem
One is pretty much just a flat buff to main damaging skills - Dragon Kick, Slide Kicking, Infinite Kicking ,Rising Drop Kick
This one would be plain and be a short term solution I guess which would lead into a sustained damage class
Second one is based around Harmony buff where you would have to have a ramp up time to deal massive damage in a short window.
Basically all I want is that the class is skill based not just another x spammer.
- What I expect is every lvl of harmony stack – from 1 to 5 – gives either a increased duration of the buff or ( depending what can be implemented or whats easier done ) a buff that gives critical rate on the next ability casted ( Which could be taken from the Overlords tree as an implementation just with crit strike – Annihilation ) or a time based buff like ninja have the passive lethal strikes which could be taken for like 4 skills at 5 stacks from the time measurements above written.
If you could do at least 4 skills at 5 stacks with a 100% crit rate it would definitely help the class to be on par with other classes while still maintaining the playstyle of high risk high reward class because you have to ramp up stacks while avoiding instant kills on Elga.
The stacks would be useable only in Fusion mode and we could the Macro bug be implemented actually as a skill in the missing skill slot at lvl 60 on the right side.
How to not make this over the top? ( Yeah haha as if that would make twins OP in Pve)
Crit damage on twin items could be nerfed to a point or set bonuses as well.
Why do I favor this complicated playstyle? Because Twin is unique and should stay that way unless we want another x spam meme.
Although due to the animation locking of certain yellow skills id propose as well a slight ( 1.2x ?) speed up for the skills Infinite Turning kick, Hyper Knee and the Harmony stacks execution skills – Finish move, Finish Impact
Everything would need ofc further testing and balancing like everything that is implemented so take every number written with a certain distance of reality what might come.
3. At Light Speed
The most controversial skill on twins probably which makes them PvP and PvE viable after acquiring it. The problem is when it goes off you are devolved from a Tiger into a Sissy. The problem with the buff is the difference of having it and not having it is too much of a day and night story.
I would probably nerf the MS boost down to 130% and AS boost either halve it or ( depending on which of the ones above mentioned would be implemented remove it completely to balance it out a little more ) And make the buff last longer and have no cooldown between having it up or down or make it completely a passive buff.
Other classes that are focused on MS buffs have a lot of MS too but it’s a hoarding of actives and passives like ninja stormstepping, passive on 60 skill tree and ninja frenzy.
So one buff shouldn’t overshine them so brutally as it does now.
4. Skill points
Last thing I propose is a nerf to skill points requirement for the main damaging skills.
Since there are a lot of skills to take and unless you wana farm a century to get enough skill points for at least a few more then the standard ones.
Im pointing at skills like :
Bunker Buster ( Mandatory 3/5 for Infinite Turning kick )
Spirit Spear ( Mandatory for Slide Kicking )
Slide kicking
Rolling Grabble
Stamper
Spin Blade ( Mandatory 3/5 for Infinite Kicking )
Infinite Kicking
Rising Drop Kick
To finish this all I hope I could encourage some more work for a more fun gameplay to a very unique class ( Really try to search something with a playstyle like twins in DS u wont find anything ).
And to encourage new people who would like to test Twins because it looks cool to play it you are free to mail / pm me ingame if you need some help on builds and what tos and what nots on the class on my IGN : Lunatik
If at some point there will be enough people to play the class ill gladly copy paste my Twin Guide from NA Warpportal Twin forum.
Every criticism is welcome as long as it is constructive. Ofc I will favor my class because its mine you are free to analyze your classes and make topics like that what you think of them
EDIT : After farming Elga a few more times there is maybe another thing I want to maybe point out for a cooler gameplay before balance happens so it might get implemented. Basically this is focused on doing more damage on static targets like Elga is in almost every phase ( If you have a dragoon in P1 ofc. )
The main problem is every other class can stay in 1 place and do their thing. Twins move with every skill which ends up in some skills not hitting and that is damage loss. Especially when you are within the shield and damaging it you can only use other twin skills because main twin would move if a skill would be used which would end up throwing you out of the shield almost halving your damage output.
Skill : The Ring from Hell
The current skill decreases the Attack speed and movement speed of the enemy target basically useless.
To make it more appealing for PvE as well it could be a % dmg increase buff when standing in the Area . Due to the higher range of the skill at a 5/5 level this would be a perfect addition for burst windows for static targets. Or if its wanted / needed could be a group buff to make the team benefit of it.
Why even more damage buffs? Well its not even more damage buffs since balancing hasnt happend yet ( Currently I deal 1/2 of the dmg of a Invoker with less cdmg and crate on Elga ). I am trying to give ideas that would not be a flat out buff on abilities which could lead to very strong clearing speeds on twin.
Hello there Id like to talk after the recent balancing patch about Twin boss damage.
This topic is mainly focused on boss damage ( considering mainly on Elga encounter but you can really feel the damage difference already from Lavalon and further up bosses )
First of all I want to introduce myself. Who I am and why am I writing this? Nobody and I got a lot of time on my hands.
Alright after the introduction.. Just to be safe: this is purely PVE related topic for every PvP salt coming this way.
The problem at hands with Twin class currently is the very low boss damage the class itself has ( the add clearing is decent its not the best but doable ) compared to any other class ingame besides dragoon but since goon is considered kinda like tanky its understandable ( what tank should overdmg DPS classes… yeah im looking at you Riot )
1. Question is why is the damage low.
From what I can see there are a few issues that amount to the general problem.
- First is the animation on other twin skills are long and deal mediocore damage.
- Second yes you can attack and X spam in between but fact is you move very rapidly forward with x spam which leaves you with just a few hits then forcing you to move every second and causing you to lose dps.
- Third the buff At Light Speed going
- Fourth lacking either consistant damage ( Invoker, Summoner ) or a burst window ( Destroyers : sniping Vulcan, Ninja – Woodrush, Crossblade )
Those problems cause that classes like ninja can spam 2-3 skills with a higher damage scaling then the Twins skill while they are not locked into an endless animation. And you aren’t making up enough dmg with x spam inbetween to close the gap of damage.
Here some wanabe tests and numbers after testing every skill a few times and getting the approximate time of from when it started and when I could move after it ended.
Dragon Kick : 2,9 sec
Infinite Turning Kick : 4,5 sec
Slide Kicking : 3,2 sec
Infinite Kicking 3,2 sec
Rising Drop Kick: 2,9 sec
Stamper : 2,8 sec
I like to compare Twin in terms of damage to Wizard since they are kinda the same they have a standalone skill doing damage while they can do separately x spam with just 1 attack.
So where is the difference between those ?
Wizard skills got a higher % damage scaling then twin skills. ( If we ignore meteor Strike which gave the class a immense dmg boost the second best would be Backdraft at 300% at just lvl 4 skill, Snow blues at skill lvl 5/5 250%. Whilst twin class having only 1 skill passing the 200% mark which would be rising drop kick ) Ofc to not forget they can put one skill on top of another because they arent locked to the animation while the skill is outside doing its thing. And for the X spam wizards can move forward backward while attacking at once so not losing any damage instead of getting more DPS when moving forward due to an animation bug.
2. Solutions I can offer for the skill problem
One is pretty much just a flat buff to main damaging skills - Dragon Kick, Slide Kicking, Infinite Kicking ,Rising Drop Kick
This one would be plain and be a short term solution I guess which would lead into a sustained damage class
Second one is based around Harmony buff where you would have to have a ramp up time to deal massive damage in a short window.
Basically all I want is that the class is skill based not just another x spammer.
- What I expect is every lvl of harmony stack – from 1 to 5 – gives either a increased duration of the buff or ( depending what can be implemented or whats easier done ) a buff that gives critical rate on the next ability casted ( Which could be taken from the Overlords tree as an implementation just with crit strike – Annihilation ) or a time based buff like ninja have the passive lethal strikes which could be taken for like 4 skills at 5 stacks from the time measurements above written.
If you could do at least 4 skills at 5 stacks with a 100% crit rate it would definitely help the class to be on par with other classes while still maintaining the playstyle of high risk high reward class because you have to ramp up stacks while avoiding instant kills on Elga.
The stacks would be useable only in Fusion mode and we could the Macro bug be implemented actually as a skill in the missing skill slot at lvl 60 on the right side.
How to not make this over the top? ( Yeah haha as if that would make twins OP in Pve)
Crit damage on twin items could be nerfed to a point or set bonuses as well.
Why do I favor this complicated playstyle? Because Twin is unique and should stay that way unless we want another x spam meme.
Although due to the animation locking of certain yellow skills id propose as well a slight ( 1.2x ?) speed up for the skills Infinite Turning kick, Hyper Knee and the Harmony stacks execution skills – Finish move, Finish Impact
Everything would need ofc further testing and balancing like everything that is implemented so take every number written with a certain distance of reality what might come.
3. At Light Speed
The most controversial skill on twins probably which makes them PvP and PvE viable after acquiring it. The problem is when it goes off you are devolved from a Tiger into a Sissy. The problem with the buff is the difference of having it and not having it is too much of a day and night story.
I would probably nerf the MS boost down to 130% and AS boost either halve it or ( depending on which of the ones above mentioned would be implemented remove it completely to balance it out a little more ) And make the buff last longer and have no cooldown between having it up or down or make it completely a passive buff.
Other classes that are focused on MS buffs have a lot of MS too but it’s a hoarding of actives and passives like ninja stormstepping, passive on 60 skill tree and ninja frenzy.
So one buff shouldn’t overshine them so brutally as it does now.
4. Skill points
Last thing I propose is a nerf to skill points requirement for the main damaging skills.
Since there are a lot of skills to take and unless you wana farm a century to get enough skill points for at least a few more then the standard ones.
Im pointing at skills like :
Bunker Buster ( Mandatory 3/5 for Infinite Turning kick )
Spirit Spear ( Mandatory for Slide Kicking )
Slide kicking
Rolling Grabble
Stamper
Spin Blade ( Mandatory 3/5 for Infinite Kicking )
Infinite Kicking
Rising Drop Kick
To finish this all I hope I could encourage some more work for a more fun gameplay to a very unique class ( Really try to search something with a playstyle like twins in DS u wont find anything ).
And to encourage new people who would like to test Twins because it looks cool to play it you are free to mail / pm me ingame if you need some help on builds and what tos and what nots on the class on my IGN : Lunatik
If at some point there will be enough people to play the class ill gladly copy paste my Twin Guide from NA Warpportal Twin forum.
Every criticism is welcome as long as it is constructive. Ofc I will favor my class because its mine you are free to analyze your classes and make topics like that what you think of them
EDIT : After farming Elga a few more times there is maybe another thing I want to maybe point out for a cooler gameplay before balance happens so it might get implemented. Basically this is focused on doing more damage on static targets like Elga is in almost every phase ( If you have a dragoon in P1 ofc. )
The main problem is every other class can stay in 1 place and do their thing. Twins move with every skill which ends up in some skills not hitting and that is damage loss. Especially when you are within the shield and damaging it you can only use other twin skills because main twin would move if a skill would be used which would end up throwing you out of the shield almost halving your damage output.
Skill : The Ring from Hell
The current skill decreases the Attack speed and movement speed of the enemy target basically useless.
To make it more appealing for PvE as well it could be a % dmg increase buff when standing in the Area . Due to the higher range of the skill at a 5/5 level this would be a perfect addition for burst windows for static targets. Or if its wanted / needed could be a group buff to make the team benefit of it.
Why even more damage buffs? Well its not even more damage buffs since balancing hasnt happend yet ( Currently I deal 1/2 of the dmg of a Invoker with less cdmg and crate on Elga ). I am trying to give ideas that would not be a flat out buff on abilities which could lead to very strong clearing speeds on twin.
Last edited:
